Grand Cherokee

A bit over a year ago, my wife's mother moved in with us from Texas. The mother in Law (MIL) really enjoys going wheeling with me (us) and commonly goes more often than my wife, she even goes out on recoveries with me normally. Up untill the begining of 2010, this was my baby.....





She was very well built and loved the rocks!!! Trouble was, she was too small for the three of us to do much in, especially with the dogs and it was hard for the MIL to get in. The decision was made and the search began.

A friend from Colorado, Danny, has a '98 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited that he brings down and wheels occasionally with us and I have always been impressed with his rig. Handles well, drives incredible and has tons of power. The '98 5.9 Limited was a very special edition that they only made that one year. The 5.9 (bigger than a Hemi) is much stronger than the 5.2 and has been a strong engine line for many years and it is backed up by a 249 full time t-case, not the best, but not a bad case. The Magnum 5.9 pushes 245HP and 345lbft of torque in stock form and goes from zero to 60 mph in only 7.3 seconds (Motor Trend measured this at a slightly faster 6.8 seconds), making it the quickest SUV available that year. This all runs thru 3.73 gears in a D30 front and Dana AL44 rear. The interior is plush and makes it like wheeling a cadillac!!

So, the search was on, but most that we found were beat and priced high. Danny finally found us one in Colorado Springs and we started long distance negotiations!!....

Danny went up and looked at it for us as he lives in Durango and was going to Denver anyway, said it was a smokin deal compared to all the others we looked and and we bought it. Danny loaded it on his trailer and hauled it to his place in Durango.




Over the Christmas 2009 break, my daughter graduated from the US Air Force Basic Training. We went to San Antonio to be with her, then went to Witchta Falls, where she headed for tech school, to pick her up and take her home for Christmas.

My Little girl (center) and friends


On the way back, we went to Durango Co. to see Danny and get our new baby!!!! Christmas Eve 2009, this '98 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited was my Christmas present!!!

The initial pics that were sent to me by the previous owner....













Taking her home, the trip was COLD (remember, we live in the Phoenix AZ area)...









So, from here, the build begins!!!!

It was decided that we needed a change in wheeling styles. We are getting old enough that the rock crawling was getting painful on the old bodies, not to mention expensive in repairs. We decided we wanted to build this rig more for expedition style wheeling. Something that could run 75 on the highway, maintain a good speed on a dirt road without getting squirly but still go into the rough trails. We set our sites on being able to do trails rated 3.5 (on the 5.0 scale), including mild rock crawling since that is what there is so much of here!!!



First step had to be tires. The tires on it were listed as AT's and were in good shape, but would never hold up in the desert or on the rocks, the sidewalls would fail QUICK. Looked at a lot of tires but, with an expedition style run, we could be out several days, with one spare if we tore a sidewall the first day, we were done, so the choice had to be either very strong sidewalls or 2 spares. With the rear rack and roof rack planned, 2 spares was feasible, but costly and a lot of extra weight. We narrowed the choice to the new Kevlar MTR's or the BFG KM'2s. The KM'2s were cheaper but while they have incredible traction, the sidewalls are not as strong and the cost of the extra KM2 and rim really made the choice. With the decision made for the MTR's, now it was down to the size.

Not being a rock crawler meant I did not have to go huge, I could keep a more reasonable size and not have to chop up the body. This was a very big point for me as this Grand was in such great shape. Typically, expedition rigs run narrower tires than crawlers and since I wanted to save the fenders, this worked out well and we settled on a tire about 9.5" wide. For the height, they said the max without cutting was 31" but a 32" would fit with minor trimming on the rear and smashing the pinch welds. The car came with 16" rims and I liked them so that set the rim size, the tires we went for were 235/85R16 and makes them real close to a 32' x 9.50"x16".








These are a very aggressive tire, but we have put about 8K miles on them so far and have been very happy, both on and off road. These new MTR also do not have the typical problem the old MTR's had of being slippery when wet. These new ones seem to grip well, wet and dry.

In march of 2010, the Red LJ finally sold and the profits were earmarked for the Grand Cherokee (GC) and specifically to build the bumpers and racks. We figured this would be the single most expensive stage in the build and we should do it before we dwindle the money on other stupid stuff like the house of food .........

We looked at all the aftermarket stuff and found some things that were kinda what I was looking for, but not really. I was on the Virtual Jeep Club forum here in AZ and was discussing what I was finding and I got a PM from a local fabricator stating that he could make them better, the way I wanted and CHEAPER.......So we started discussing and came to an agreement, took him the jeep and he went to work on a complet one-off fab for my GC. The rear had to have a recovery point, swing out, carry the spare and a fuel/water can. The roof rack had to be full length, filled bottom, light tabs front and rear and side mounts for hi-lift and shovel. The front had to hold the winch, somewhat follow the contour of the Jeep (no ARB bull bar box), had to have two recovery points that would also anchor the tow bar and have a mini stinger to stop anything from coming over the front. Lastly, slidrs with rub rails for the rocks

We settled on a pricce and I dropped off the car for a week and a half.
In the process of tearing things apart, he found that the front had been hit and not fully repaired uder the plastic. This made for a setback and little more cost to make the frame openings square again, but he was able to get it where he needed and continue.

He started working on the roof rack, he set it in place while I was there to show me how it looked!!







Two tabs on the rear for reverse lights...


and four on the front...




He started playing with the rear bumper while his helper was fixing front damage. All the plate steel in the both bumpers is 3/16", cut with a torch and mig welded together then rounded and smothed with a grinder and flap wheel.




The rear swing uses a custom built spindle and larger axle bearings.




.

With the front frame work corrected, he started laying out the front bumper. We used a stock smittybilt winchplate as the starting base and I took him the winch to se in place for layout. From there, he started his magic....



hand cutting the pieces..


and putting them in place...







All of that was taken off and used as a patternt to cut the final pieces and then he tacked them all together...

Being a Christian wheeler and having an Off Road Ministry, I like my vehicle to make a statement. If you can get their attention, you can talk to them. I am not the "look at me" kinda guy, but I decided long ago on the red Jeep, that I had to get their attention to spread the Word.

So, I told this to Doc at the begining of the build and gave him soe ideas what I was looking for and told him he had poetic license!!

Doc has a very strong Christian upbringing, not practicing much now (his words, not mine) but he knows the Bible and he knows the Lord. This is what he came up with for me !!!!








We are now up to the end of March 2010...
More to come

THAT'S AMAZING!!!!!!! I LOVE THE TIRES!!! I LOVE THE FRONT BUMPER!!!!!

WOW... very cool!

Love the custom touches, esp the mini Mt Calvary!

PS...
Go USAF!
Say, "Hey!" to the daughter.
I'm out now by my bro's still in (he's a P.J.)

Well, Doc finished the Jeep and I went to pick it up. That started my part of the job!!! I did not want anything powdercoated as that leads to rustout. Powdercoating gets chipped, water gets in underneath and the rust runs under it, hidden till its to late. Besides that, I have no intention of babying this rig and when it gets scratched on the rocks and stuff, I want to be able to touch it up!! So, Doc finished it up and gave it to me in bare metal form!!

The rear swing...


The sliders...


Started with some primer on the rock rail and rocker and decided to take it out to check the tires and clearances.







After that trail ride we stopped at home depot for some paint. I had spent over a week looking at ideas for paint colors on all the parts. I decided I didn't want the standard black or gray. Again, if you want to spread the Word, you have to get their attention. I played in photoshop with blue, red and green but it was all too drastic, I want people interested, not STAREING!!!!

Anyway, I decided to use a hammered finish so it would be easy to touch up. I chose what I thought would be a classy brown and bought a few cans. Started with just the rocker and rock rail to see if we liked it, then I could move on to the bumpers.








Got done with the one side and got a call for a recovery. I am part of a SAR team and one of our main functions is recovering stolen and destroyed vehicles out of the desert for the Sheriffs and Rangers. SO, got to go out to a Nissan Micra that had ben taken in 6 miles and torched. We flipped it on its roof and hooked up, great chance to check out the 4x4 traction!!! We ad to cross the river to start and here, the river is a wash that is filled with fine sand and silt covered in 1" - 8" of flowing water. If you start to spin, the water washes all the sand out from under you and you sink!!!! So, we hooked up another Jeep in front of me for safety and started out. These tires worked incredible!!!! Walked right accross the river with no problems.





Used the roof rack to hold the parts that fell off on the trek back to the road...

I did find with the first off road run and with the recovery, that I had an issue with the back tires rubbing a little. I researched adjustable control arms, upper and lower for the rear and found that it would cost me about $600. Not where I wanted to go so I decided to trim a little.

The lower part of the quarter panel and the rocker rubbed the tire in stuff situations...


so I tapered out from the upper edge to 3/4" removed at the bottom...






Yes, the tennis balls look odd but there was a reason. Poor mans bump stop extension, yes it did work!!!.
The trim worked good and stopped the rubbing.


We decided we liked the brown and would use it all the way around. After looking at the Jeep, I was concerned that the cladding was chipped up and would get scratched up in the brush, Arizona Pinstripping, and that to get color matched pait to this stone white is a lot more expensive and hard to touch up. So, I decided to paint it all! Cladding down, even with the bumpers was set to be brown. I lightly scuffed all of it with steelwool pads, taped it all off and then cleaned it real good. Painted a couple light coats of primer and then started on the color. It came out very good!!! I did not do the center of the front bumper as the winch was still there, will take off the bumper later and finish it.











Also painted the hood louvers (only on the 5.9 Limited) aas they were chipped up...


Decided I loved the color and was going to keep it. Looking at the rims, they were chrome, but rusty from the Colorado winters. I had decided to paint them a dark gray, but they just looked like bare metal, so I changed the color!!!

First off, to paint over chrome is a mess and if you do not get GOOD adhesion, it will peel or chip. I again hit the computer for some research on how to make it work. I have painted chrome bumpers in the past and they did not hold well and I did not want the same with these. I found several areas that talked about it and I talked to an auto painter for his advice.

I started with cleaning the wheels really good and getting all the brake dust out. Next I used some #0 steelwool pads and cleaned up the rusted areas. Next I used a #000 steelwool pad to scuff the chrome on the entire wheel, back and front. The chrome has to be scuffed to give a surface for the paint to adhere to, then clean it all with acetone and make sure there is no residue. Up till now, this is what I did before and then went to the primer, but as I said, it always peeled after a little time. THis time I picked up some Adhesion Promoter from Autozone. It is made as a base coat for fiberglass but it makes like a gluebond between the chrome and the paint.
Anyway, spray two light coats of promoter, then I went to two VERY LIGHT coats of paint, just enough to completely cover the chrome. Last, I applied a light coat of gloss clear.
The bigest things about this are to get a good, but smooth scuff, a good coat of Adhesion Promoter and then keep all coats as thin as possible, The less you put on the surface, the better it will stay.






Somewhere in all this, I also painted the rear swing, greased up the bearings and mounted it all up.

Once agin, more later.

pdlong wrote:

WOW... very cool!

Love the custom touches, esp the mini Mt Calvary!

PS...
Go USAF!
Say, "Hey!" to the daughter.
I'm out now by my bro's still in (he's a P.J.)

LOL, she was destined to be USAF if any service. Her Mom and I were both in as well as her Uncle and her grandfather!!!

AZLugz wrote:

pdlong wrote:

WOW... very cool!

Love the custom touches, esp the mini Mt Calvary!

PS...
Go USAF!
Say, "Hey!" to the daughter.
I'm out now by my bro's still in (he's a P.J.)

LOL, she was destined to be USAF if any service. Her Mom and I were both in as well as her Uncle and her grandfather!!!

Tell her a huge THANK YOU from us!!! Hope she's loving it!!!


As for the Cherokee. Oh man, there are no words. It's amazing. Looks beautiful. The paint color you added is fantastic!!!

Hey I put my JESUS ROCKS sticker in the same area!!!
I need to order more of the wheelin' fish stickers. Mine died with my Xterra!

Email me your address Sweets and I will send ya some!!

What were they, $7 each? I need 2 silver colored ones....do you have silver??? (or grey?) If not, I'll take white.

PM me your address and I'll send you a check.

That is one sweet build. Way to go.

k_enn

Off on another tangent........

We are not only Jeeper but are campers but being older campers we have moved on from tents. Now mind you, we are not to old to sleep in the desert, we just use trailers. The first is for going way in off road, it is a 2006 Jumping Jack and is capable of some pretty rough terrain and getting back where most would not dream of towing a trailer. This is our JJ hooked to the old jeep way back into the mountians....one point we had to winch ourselves up...



Crossing the river...


Another section...


Another great reason to use the JJ, it can haul all the gear including the quads for the kids to ride. Setup like this, we are still under the Jeeps weight limit, but not by much.....no matter now as we are way under the limit on the new ZJ.






So, that is how we camp WAY off road. For desert camping closer to the main road or for visiting campgrounds, we go a little more civilized. We recently trade off our old truck and got a new one, the old one was getting prestty tired and we started having issues with the diesel that the mechanic said was going to be expensive in the near future. Every deal we tried to make on a used truck fell thru, they were either asking way too much, or they didn't want a trade. Well, after many days negociating (sp) on a 2005 and the dealer trying to put us in a new one, he finally hit our breaking point, $75 a month more in payments for a new (09) F350 diesel Lariet 4x4 than a (05) f250 diesel XLT 4x4. After that and with the MIL now living with us, the little 28' Fiver was not big enough and could not triple tow the Jeep. More multi-day dealings and we ended up in a (09) Jayco 38' bunkhouse. So, for civilized camping, we are rolling like this...

First day, left the dealer (3.5 hours from home) and stopped at a liitle (plain) campground for the first night...


Different campground..


In the purchase agreement, was that they add this so we could tow the Jeep.....



That long tanget was to get us to the reason for the next part of the build....
All the states around us, including Arizona, except Californina, allow multi vehicle towing. Some call it triple tow, some call it tandems, either way, if the first trailer is hooked up in the bed as a 5th wheel or gooseneck, you can haul a ball hitch trailer behind it.

Anyways, part of the original deal on the metal work for the jeep, was that the front bumper include a stout towbar. Well, that is definately what he built!!

He asked that I bring in a ball hitch connector for a 2". So I stopped and picked one up and dropped it off. Well, he meant 2" tube and I thought 2" ball, the one I got was for 2.5" tube so he had to go bigger. It wouked out as it is receiver tube so it hold my recovery point.....well, you'll see...

First brought it home and put the initial primer on it...


Still have not painted the center section of the bumper and the winch was just used in an off angle recovery and not yet repooled, but this pic show the 7/8" grade 8 bolts for the pins...


Drilled the pin hole and put in the recovery ring that is normally in my trailer hitch and put on a coat of matching brown hammered paint...




I have some 2" ID pvc pipe to cut that will go over the stinger bar and protect it from the winch cable when I have it in the transport position.

Well, the next add on is really not a necessary thing and can be a pain in the butt at times, most people would never add it and several have laughed, but it works for me so I keep it. The Butcher Jones off road area is out by the lake and is a sandy area with lots of washes and tons of desert scrub brush that is taller than the car. When driving thru the brush, it slaps the windshield, slides up to the roof and gets wedged in the V of the roof rack mounting, pulls on the rack...the trees and just makes a mess and a lot of noise. Well, took and idea from the trophy trucks.

I started with a 2"x1"x14" "L" bracket that I had laying around:




I cut a piece off each end 5 1/2" long and use a flap wheel to shape them:




The notch in the center of the angle is for a rib on the fender. A 3/8" hole is in the upper curve for the turnbuckle. And three mount holes, one for the fender mount screw and then 2 for 10-24 machine screws the go into rivnuts I put into the fender, one down and one sideways:








Both mounts are made and installed now. I took two 7' lengths of 3/32" 230lb galvanized steel cable and a 7/32" x 6 1/4" turnbuckle. I cut the cable to the right length and added the swedges I still need to pull the brackets back out and paint them to match:








These are not heavy enough for tree limbs like on the trophy trucks, but that is not the issue we face here, so far these have worked very good at managing the scrub.

I still need to deal with the antenna. I have looked at a short rubber whip that can be set at an angle. I have also considered a windshild or a roof mount and blocking off the fender hole.


After the wires were done, I mounted some quickfist clamps and the shovel and then remounted the Hi-lift:







Still a lot to do. As you can see, somewhere in all this, the roof rack got painted black but no pics were taken. The big painting jobs were wainting till it cools off some and I can devote an entire day to pull both bumpers and tape off the passenger side. Need to finish buffing out all the rust on the wheels so I can get them painted too.

Well, it hadn't really cooled off, but it at least dropped into the high 90's for the weekend so I thought I should take advantage of it and finish up a lot of the paint work. I got 2 more rims painted, the passenger side done and here is the work on the front bumper....


Part of the job of removing and painting the inner and center parts of the bumper, were also to clean up the winch install. The controll box on top of the winch has always looked cluttered to me and I wanted it moved, the other problem with it is the Az sun. It destroys the stickers and fades the box making it look like a mess. So, part of the objest it to hide the control box but also put it where it will be safe. First step tho was to respool the winch!!!

After taking the bumper off, I tore the control box apart and chose a spot to hide it. This also complicates things in that the connection point has to be moved. The new XRC8 winch, like a lot of them went to a "solid state" design and got away from the big old solenoids. This is good in that it is less parts to fail, but a lot of people calain it is bad because if it does fail, you are stuck. Remember tho, you still have the big lugs on the back of the winch itsel and if the solenod fails, you can use one part of your jumper cables to connect to the proper lug on the winch and touch to the positive of the battery, this will still spool the winch manually.

Anyway, back to the build. I started everthing off by painting the rest of the bumper. Decided to mount the solenoid on the bumpers frame horn to the passenger side of the winch. Two small holes in the frame horn hold it in place.



As already mentioned, I had to move the remote handle connector since it was on the face of the box and would now be burried in the bumper. I picked a spot that would be protected but be easily accessed and still look nice. At the same time, I started modifying the original cover to work in the new spot.



While the bumper was off, I removed the grill and painted the front framework of the Jeep in black. It had been white and showed behid the winch, to me, it looked bad.



Nest was on to the wiring. I could leave it as it was, but I wanted to put in an in cab remote and needed to tap into the existing hookup. I needed wire that would handle a bit of current, be weatherproof and needed three conductors. A while back, the MIL was using a trimmer and hit the lightweight extension cord, cutting it thru. This cord seemed to fit all the requirements so, instead of fixing it, I swiped it for my build!!
Took the original pigtail for the remote connector and added three connectors. At the same time, I soldered the connections on the original connectors as they were not the best! I cut off the torn up end of the extension cord and soldered on three connectors, heat shrinked it all and wrapped the pigtail to put back on the controller.





For now, the extra wire is coiled in the engine compartment. That and the incab controls will be a future mod. Right now it is still triple digit temps and that is too hot to work inside the vehicle much.

Nest step was to make a bracket to hold the cover in place. I went thru several ideas but then went back and dug the box bottom out of the trash and started cutting. Took just the right side of it and after cutting, a flap wheel took off the excess stuff that was in the way. Since it fits in so tight, I really only needed a couple screws to keep it in place so this worked out perfect. Finished cutting out the parts of the box necessary to re-route the wires and screwed it all together. Remounted the winch in the bumper and hooked up main wires.










With the bumper painted and the winch remounted, it was time to start putting it all back together. One other task on the front I wanted to complete was to make the Crosses stand out a little more. They had been the same brown as the rest but I felt they got lost in the front end. I had picked up some stone white duplicolor spray for some touch up and decided to try that, it makes them different from the front but stays in the same color scheme. Again, be noticed, not obnoxious!!!
During all this, I even found time to do the oil change. Everything came out good and I was very happy with the results. It is a slow process but I am enjoying it as I go. And see how nice the winch looks with it spooled correctly!!!






Can hardly even see the control box...




OK, enough for today. We can get into trail comm later, that was another decision area!!

OMG, Bill...it just gets better and better! Nice work. Not too crazy, flashy, etc etc. WELL DONE.

LOVE IT!!!!!!

hmmmmmmmm..........

PUNISHER350 wrote:

hmmmmmmmm..........

Interesting response?!!!!!!??!!??!!

Some of this is a little out of order, but I grouped things to make it easy to follow. So, you may have seen the antennas on the roof, lets get into that part, on with the trail comm.

As I stated before, I am part of the VJC SAR group and use my Jeep or my truck for rescue asn recovery, depenfing on what is needed. We also use our rigs at the King of the Hammers race in So Cal each february as chase vehicles and to haul parts and supplies to the checkpoints. For these functions, HAM radio is best but for normal trail rides, most people have regular CB's. So, the dilema is getting two radios in a Jeep that does not even want one!!! First hurdle was radio purchase.

Our 4x4Him group worked out a deal on a nice 2 meter setup that puts out 75watts. The whole setup with a 22" black hardmount antenna and cable came out just over $200. With in my budget where most of the other rigs, including remote face units were not. Yaesu FT-2900.




For running with the local groups and for ingroup comm in the search and rescue, I picked up a 4 watt cobra 19 DX that the dealer peaked to 16 watts. The antenna is a Wilson 1000 hardmount on the roof. Should be able to get decent distance out of it but still be clear.



This unit also has the PA ability for use during Vehicle recovery operations......Much easier than yelling down the hill!!


Fisrt issue on the radio was the freq bands. The band we use for the Chase team at KOH is not a std band on this radio as it is a commercial purchased range. So the radio needed to be modified. The dealer wanted and additional $40 to do the mod but after some checking, it was a simple desolder job and have worked electronics for 20+ years I figured I could handle that!!! With both rigs bought, modified and ready, it was time to find a spot.

Looking at this pic from sent from the original owner, you can see my dash is not conducive to a radio install, let alone two.



I don't normally use the sunroof but did not want to render it completely inoperative but the ceiling was the only area I could work with to mount them. So the mount needed to be lite weight, smooth on top so the sun roof cover could slide but still be strong enough to hold the radios.....and the two meter radio is HEAVY!!!!! I had some aluminum strip but needed to use two strips with something in between to hook radio mounts to. I found some decorative wire netting I had used to stop the dogs from running into the screens and used that. The screws going thru the strips and holding the radio mounts, are ground flush and the sun roof still opens. The strips are then screwed to the ceiling under the sun roof opening trim to keep the whole system from moving around. Its not the perfect setup by any means, but it works! Still need to pull it back out and paint it. The dust and dirt on radios and ceiling was from the trail ride!

The CB wiring goes from the radio thru a sleeve and into the front upper console. The two meter antenna is also mounted but I have not wired it or power to the radio yet....had to finish for a Crown King run the following day. I will wire that one in soon but it has a lot heavier wires and will take a bit more work!.

We took the jeep on a "difficult" rated run the next day, Crown King as stated above, and except for having the mast come out of the CB antenna mount (set screw not tight enough), it did really good and held up to the ceiling with no problems. I don't think the mesh will be a permanant part of the mount, but for now, it holds the radios and it served to let me know if this idea would work.









Both antennas were mounted to the front area of the roof in front of the roof rack. The CB andtenna is centered and the 2 meter antenna is on the drivers side more.







Nice thing with the Wilson whip is that it bends easy!!!

AZLugz wrote:

PUNISHER350 wrote:

hmmmmmmmm..........

Interesting response?!!!!!!??!!??!!

Someone duct-taped his mouth shut! hahhahaaa

Has nothing to do with duct tape....and before I explain the hmmm....comment....let me say this first

your rig looks awesome love your ideas and creativity...keep going it's looking awesome

now to the hmm comment...

I felt disapointed because of everyone getting the responses of looks great keep
going etc etc on their rig building...and I build a rig basicly from the ground up....bartering for all the parts....working harder then ever and I get ignored... Please understand I'm not changing the idea of your post or anything but I felt It had to be explained.....

Sorry for the inconvience And rudeness.....

Great rig you got there.........

PUNISHER350 wrote:

....bartering for all the parts....

hmmmmmmmmmm.

******************************

Anyway. I went and looked (as I had no idea you were being ignored) and save for the last couple posts, there were several people in there responding, myself included....twice.

I'm sorry you feel bad. But if I need to try to explain what may be the deal so you'll feel better I will, cuz I don't like when someone's unhappy. Your pictures are mainly of mechanical stuff most people have no idea about. Bill's pics are of mods that people can relate better to. I'm just saying that may be part of it.

I also know that there are periods of time when there are many people on here responding to things and times that no one does...they're just lurking. *80% of our members do this.

I can find a dozen posts throughout the forum that specifically say, "even if there are no responses, it doesn't mean people aren't looking".

There are a gazillion posts in here that have "0" responses. Half of them very important to the person who wrote them. Plenty of views, but no responses. IT HAPPENS. Trust me. I know it better than anyone.

But I don't take it as people ignoring me. If people want to respond, they do. We have a LOT going on here and are working really hard to make the outreach part of this club thrive. I cannot police whether people are responding to posts in different areas.



I'm glad you're enjoying your rig and I hope it's up and running soon!!


NOW BACK TO BILL'S THREAD. If you need to talk, you can PM me.